Couesnon Flugelhorn Serial Numbers
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Couesnon has been in business for over 170 years. The Couesnon company was started in 1827, outside of Paris. Cousenon was located in Paris in 1882 by Amedee Couesnon the son-in-law of Gautrot Aine. In 1883, it was called Couesnon, Gautrot et Cie, and from 1888, Couesnon et Cie. By 1896 they had a workforce of 200
By 1911, Couesnon had expanded to eleven factories and more than 1000 workers. During this time the products were highly sought after and were played by many virtuosos. A 1913 catalog lists the models from best to worst: Modele Monopole, Opera AN, Armee BN, Armee GNM, Cantional BO, Universel CGO, and Model SO.
*Free Serial Numbers
*Couesnon Flugelhorn Serial Numbers ListFree Serial Numbers
I recently bought a Couesnon Monopole Conservatoires alto sax with serial number 11103. It came with a ’CERTIFICAT D’ESSAI ET DE GARANTIE’, printed on Monopole Conservatoire certificate paper, with the serial number 11103 written in by hand, dated in Paris by hand November 15, 1960, and signed and stamped by M. I bought a Couesnon flugelhorn but I’m completely at a loss as to what model it is, when it was produced. The horn has no visible serial number. On the second valve there’s stamped an ’x’ (1,2,3 on the other side of the valves) and on the receiver the number ’49’. On the bell is printed Couesnon (with the C encircling the o) and Paris underneath.
Note the ’pineapple’ or ’Grenade’ at the bottom of the logo. When this is present, the number in side of the design is the year of manufacture.
But, by 1927 they were down to a workforce of 200.
During the 1930s they began catering to marching brass bands, and gradually became almost the only supplier of marching brass instruments in France. They made many horns which were imported into the United States, including many that were sold under the names of music stores and other private labels.1
At the end of World War II, the music business started to change, but Couesnon continued to deal primarily with the special needs and instruments of brass and military bands. Starting in the 60 s and during the next 20 years, Couesnon tried to expand its share in markets other than marching bands. They made a line called Monopole Conservatoire of higher quality instruments, but their marketing proved ineffective and factories were sold off and in 1969 the main factory was badly damaged by fire, destroying the archives. The fire resulted in loss of all the company records, including those which would make it possible to determine the year of manufacture from the serial number. In 1978, the contract with Gretch to import Couesnon instruments to the United States was terminated and new Couesnon instruments have been very rare in the US since that time.
Today the company has only 25 employees working in its sole shop. In 1999, the French drum maker P.G.M. bought the name, the tooling, and the factory to give it new life. Android os application. The company is now known as P.G.M. Cousenon. Their most popular products are hunting horns and tambour drums mainly for the French market. Unfortunately all the mandrels and tooling needed for the making of C, Bb and piccolo trumpets had been stolen, so the workshop is making only brass band instruments, such as the flugelhorn, cornet, tuba, a true French French horn, with piston valves and extended stems for left hand operation, hunting horns, and a natural trumpet (Jeanne of Arc model) and military bugles, bass bugles, cavalry trumpets.
The company is now a very small family owned business whose ownership is found in the companys name, P.G.M. comes from the family name Planson. They have two daughters Sophie and Isabelle. Sophies married name which is Glace. Isabelles married name which is Moret. The company is all situated in one building, containing office, manufacturing, storage, and lacquering. Only silverplating and case making are done elsewhere. Production facilities are old-fashioned and the employees are skilled hand craftsmen. All of the Couesnon instruments are handmade. They make three flugelhorn models, 137 Tradition, which is the small one, 142 Monopole, and 144 which is the 4 valve version. Production of flugelhorns is about 50-60 a year.
An important part of the engraving is the small number (in a circle, or pineapple) which often follows the words on the bell. This indicates the last two digits of the year made
The Triebert workshop was established in Paris in 1810, but they were primarily oboe makers, and are credited for being primiarily responsible for the development of the modern oboe. The company went into bankruptcy in 1881, and was bought by Gautrot Aine, who in turn was bought out by Couesnon.
It is likely that any brass instruments with the Triebert name are actually Couesnon. Couesnon is known to have used the Triebert tradename into the 30s.
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trumpetherald.com Forum Index ->HornsView previous topic :: View next topicAuthorMessagertsorensen
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Joined: 14 Feb 2015
Posts: 8
Posted: Sat Feb 14, 2015 9:08 am Post subject: Couesnon IdentificationHi everyone,
I bought a Couesnon flugelhorn but I’m completely at a loss as to what model it is, when it was produced.
The horn has no visible serial number. On the second valve there’s stamped an ’x’ (1,2,3 on the other side of the valves) and on the receiver the number ’49’. On the bell is printed Couesnon (with the C encircling the o) and Paris underneath.
Hope someone out there can help me!? I heard that there’s a lot of unclarity regarding these horns as all the records with the serial numbers were lost in a fire. I never heard of any horns missing the serial number though. So I’m frankly a little worried if it even is legit....Back to tophomebilly
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Dec 2010
Posts: 1981
Location: Venice, CA & Paris, France
Posted: Sat Feb 14, 2015 11:29 am Post subject: pictures please
_________________
ron meza (deadbeat jazz musician) & (TH 5 post ghost neighborhood watch ringleader)
waiting for Fed-Ex to deliver a $50 trumpet to my door. shipping was prepaid by seller of course!
http://ronmeza.com
http://highdefinitionbigband.comBack to topdewey
Regular Member
Joined: 27 Jan 2005
Posts: 40
Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Posted: Sat Feb 14, 2015 11:47 am Post subject: with this model, the serial number is usually on the bell
_________________
Adams A4
Schilke B5Lb
Van Cleave Bb (Model unknown)
Chicago Benge 33XX (1953)
Schilke S32 (1980s)
Olds Super (Fullerton) (1973)
Adams F2 Flugel
Couesnon Flugel (who knows?)Back to topdupac
Regular Member
Joined: 17 Mar 2012
Posts: 61
Location: Bordeaux, France
Posted: Sat Feb 14, 2015 11:50 pm Post subject: We need pictures of both sides of the horn, of the ’Couesnon’ engraving, of that ’49’ too..
_________________
Mikel Dupac / LawlerC7 / CarolBrass flugel+pocket
Several Couesnon flugels / Olds Super / Conn New
Wonder cornet / Music healing force of UniverseBack to topMike Prestage
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Joined: 09 Oct 2012
Posts: 551
Location: London, UK
Posted: Sun Feb 15, 2015 5:21 am Post subject: I’ve seen a Couesnon Star with no serial number. I’m 100% certain it wasn’t a fake - it looked identical in every way to a Star I owned at the time (which did have a serial) and played a lot like it as well.
As far as models go, it’s not at all unusual for Couesnons to have no model name marked on them. AFAIK no one’s ever worked out what the odd letters such as X mean.
MikeBack to topdupac
Regular Member
Joined: 17 Mar 2012
Posts: 61
Location: Bordeaux, France
Posted: Sun Feb 15, 2015 5:37 am Post subject: X was just an instruction to choose the right valve block during assembly: no meaning for the user. Furthermore the lack of serial number, plus the description of the engraving, make me think the horn could have been made in 1968-69, .. but I need pictures!
_________________
Mikel Dupac / LawlerC7 / CarolBrass flugel+pocket
Several Couesnon flugels / Olds Super / Conn New
Wonder cornet / Music healing force of UniverseBack to toprtsorensen
New Member
Joined: 14 Feb 2015
Posts: 8
Posted: Sun Feb 15, 2015 8:31 am Post subject: Here are some pics. Hope you guys can help me..
/Users/rolfthoftesorensen/Library/Containers/com.apple.mail/Data/Library/Mail Downloads/4CAA4240-73B8-43C8-AC93-E43CF6A8FFE4/IMG_2369.JPG
/Users/rolfthoftesorensen/Library/Containers/com.apple.mail/Data/Library/Mail Downloads/61DAC855-57F2-4ACC-B538-DF1EFD4C8C81/IMG_2366.JPG
/Users/rolfthoftesorensen/Library/Containers/com.apple.mail/Data/Library/Mail Downloads/F92EDA6E-360D-4582-A11F-514C136C77C8/IMG_2370.JPG[/img]Back to toprtsorensen
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Posted: Sun Feb 15, 2015 8:32 am Post subject: How the hell do you post pictures?Back to toprtsorensen
New Member
Joined: 14 Feb 2015
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Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2015 2:31 am Post subject: Ahhhh... You should be able to see pictures of the horn following this link. Thanks!
https://www.facebook.com/rolfsrensen/media_set?set=a.10152752983439001.1073741828.756989000&type=3Back to topdupac
Regular Member
Joined: 17 Mar 2012
Posts: 61
Location: Bordeaux, France
Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2015 4:28 am Post subject: Thank you for the pictures. All these details are absolutely identical to those of my own flugel .. This quick and cheap engraving (stamping?) was used after the great strikes of May and June 1968 in France, when the production resumed. Without being 100% sure, I think your horn was made in 1968-69, 1970 perhaps, but not later.
_________________
Mikel Dupac / LawlerC7 / CarolBrass flugel+pocket
Several Couesnon flugels / Olds Super / Conn New
Wonder cornet / Music healing force of UniverseBack to toprtsorensen
New Member
Joined: 14 Feb 2015
Posts: 8
Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2015 4:34 am Post subject: thanks a lot dupac!
It seems very plausible that this horn should around that old from the look of it. Your horn is also without serial and with the 49 on the receiver? What does this ’49’ signify?
So the horn is not of a special model? Its just a couesnon flugelhorn from around 1968-70....?Back to topdupac
Regular Member
Joined: 17 Mar 2012
Posts: 61
Location: Bordeaux, France
Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2015 4:45 am Post subject: As for the model: even if I can’t see that on the pictures, I think it is not a ’Monopole’ (the high end model) since it probably hasn’t any trigger. But it isn’t a low end either, since I can see it has three water keys. How does it play?
49 is a code number for the leadpipe. Mine has 22, but is a low end model. And no serial number too!
_________________
Mikel Dupac / LawlerC7 / CarolBrass flugel+pocket
Several Couesnon flugels / Olds Super / Conn New
Wonder cornet / Music healing force of UniverseBack to toprtsorensen
New Member
Joined: 14 Feb 2015
Posts: 8
Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2015 4:51 am Post subject: It has a trigger for the third valve yes..Back to topdupac
Regular Member
Joined: 17 Mar 2012
Posts: 61
Location: Bordeaux, France
Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2015 4:58 am Post subject: A trigger? Fine.. To my knowledge, the ’Monopole’ models had two triggers, on first and third valve slides. So you have a ’semi-Monopole’! Good horn I hope?
_________________
Mikel Dupac / LawlerC7 / CarolBrass flugel+pocket
Several Couesnon flugels / Olds Super / Conn New
Wonder cornet / Music healing force of UniverseBack to topdupac
Regular Member
Joined: 17 Mar 2012
Posts: 61
Location: Bordeaux, France
Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2015 12:52 pm Post subject: Correction: the Couesnon Monopole flugels had only one trigger, on the third valve of course.
_________________
Mikel Dupac / LawlerC7 / CarolBrass flugel+pocket
Several Couesnon flugels / Olds Super / Conn New
Wonder cornet / Music healing force of UniverseBack to toprtsorensen
New Member
Joined: 14 Feb 2015
Posts: 8
Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2015 12:05 am Post subject: so it might actually be a monopole... But i guess we can only make a qualified guessBack to toptrumpetherald.com Forum Index ->HornsAll times are GMT - 8 Hours
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Couesnon has been in business for over 170 years. The Couesnon company was started in 1827, outside of Paris. Cousenon was located in Paris in 1882 by Amedee Couesnon the son-in-law of Gautrot Aine. In 1883, it was called Couesnon, Gautrot et Cie, and from 1888, Couesnon et Cie. By 1896 they had a workforce of 200
By 1911, Couesnon had expanded to eleven factories and more than 1000 workers. During this time the products were highly sought after and were played by many virtuosos. A 1913 catalog lists the models from best to worst: Modele Monopole, Opera AN, Armee BN, Armee GNM, Cantional BO, Universel CGO, and Model SO.
*Free Serial Numbers
*Couesnon Flugelhorn Serial Numbers ListFree Serial Numbers
I recently bought a Couesnon Monopole Conservatoires alto sax with serial number 11103. It came with a ’CERTIFICAT D’ESSAI ET DE GARANTIE’, printed on Monopole Conservatoire certificate paper, with the serial number 11103 written in by hand, dated in Paris by hand November 15, 1960, and signed and stamped by M. I bought a Couesnon flugelhorn but I’m completely at a loss as to what model it is, when it was produced. The horn has no visible serial number. On the second valve there’s stamped an ’x’ (1,2,3 on the other side of the valves) and on the receiver the number ’49’. On the bell is printed Couesnon (with the C encircling the o) and Paris underneath.
Note the ’pineapple’ or ’Grenade’ at the bottom of the logo. When this is present, the number in side of the design is the year of manufacture.
But, by 1927 they were down to a workforce of 200.
During the 1930s they began catering to marching brass bands, and gradually became almost the only supplier of marching brass instruments in France. They made many horns which were imported into the United States, including many that were sold under the names of music stores and other private labels.1
At the end of World War II, the music business started to change, but Couesnon continued to deal primarily with the special needs and instruments of brass and military bands. Starting in the 60 s and during the next 20 years, Couesnon tried to expand its share in markets other than marching bands. They made a line called Monopole Conservatoire of higher quality instruments, but their marketing proved ineffective and factories were sold off and in 1969 the main factory was badly damaged by fire, destroying the archives. The fire resulted in loss of all the company records, including those which would make it possible to determine the year of manufacture from the serial number. In 1978, the contract with Gretch to import Couesnon instruments to the United States was terminated and new Couesnon instruments have been very rare in the US since that time.
Today the company has only 25 employees working in its sole shop. In 1999, the French drum maker P.G.M. bought the name, the tooling, and the factory to give it new life. Android os application. The company is now known as P.G.M. Cousenon. Their most popular products are hunting horns and tambour drums mainly for the French market. Unfortunately all the mandrels and tooling needed for the making of C, Bb and piccolo trumpets had been stolen, so the workshop is making only brass band instruments, such as the flugelhorn, cornet, tuba, a true French French horn, with piston valves and extended stems for left hand operation, hunting horns, and a natural trumpet (Jeanne of Arc model) and military bugles, bass bugles, cavalry trumpets.
The company is now a very small family owned business whose ownership is found in the companys name, P.G.M. comes from the family name Planson. They have two daughters Sophie and Isabelle. Sophies married name which is Glace. Isabelles married name which is Moret. The company is all situated in one building, containing office, manufacturing, storage, and lacquering. Only silverplating and case making are done elsewhere. Production facilities are old-fashioned and the employees are skilled hand craftsmen. All of the Couesnon instruments are handmade. They make three flugelhorn models, 137 Tradition, which is the small one, 142 Monopole, and 144 which is the 4 valve version. Production of flugelhorns is about 50-60 a year.
An important part of the engraving is the small number (in a circle, or pineapple) which often follows the words on the bell. This indicates the last two digits of the year made
The Triebert workshop was established in Paris in 1810, but they were primarily oboe makers, and are credited for being primiarily responsible for the development of the modern oboe. The company went into bankruptcy in 1881, and was bought by Gautrot Aine, who in turn was bought out by Couesnon.
It is likely that any brass instruments with the Triebert name are actually Couesnon. Couesnon is known to have used the Triebert tradename into the 30s.
Couesnon Flugelhorn Serial Numbers List • FAQ • Search • Memberlist • Usergroups • Register • Profile • Log in to check your private messages • Log in
trumpetherald.com Forum Index ->HornsView previous topic :: View next topicAuthorMessagertsorensen
New Member
Joined: 14 Feb 2015
Posts: 8
Posted: Sat Feb 14, 2015 9:08 am Post subject: Couesnon IdentificationHi everyone,
I bought a Couesnon flugelhorn but I’m completely at a loss as to what model it is, when it was produced.
The horn has no visible serial number. On the second valve there’s stamped an ’x’ (1,2,3 on the other side of the valves) and on the receiver the number ’49’. On the bell is printed Couesnon (with the C encircling the o) and Paris underneath.
Hope someone out there can help me!? I heard that there’s a lot of unclarity regarding these horns as all the records with the serial numbers were lost in a fire. I never heard of any horns missing the serial number though. So I’m frankly a little worried if it even is legit....Back to tophomebilly
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Dec 2010
Posts: 1981
Location: Venice, CA & Paris, France
Posted: Sat Feb 14, 2015 11:29 am Post subject: pictures please
_________________
ron meza (deadbeat jazz musician) & (TH 5 post ghost neighborhood watch ringleader)
waiting for Fed-Ex to deliver a $50 trumpet to my door. shipping was prepaid by seller of course!
http://ronmeza.com
http://highdefinitionbigband.comBack to topdewey
Regular Member
Joined: 27 Jan 2005
Posts: 40
Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Posted: Sat Feb 14, 2015 11:47 am Post subject: with this model, the serial number is usually on the bell
_________________
Adams A4
Schilke B5Lb
Van Cleave Bb (Model unknown)
Chicago Benge 33XX (1953)
Schilke S32 (1980s)
Olds Super (Fullerton) (1973)
Adams F2 Flugel
Couesnon Flugel (who knows?)Back to topdupac
Regular Member
Joined: 17 Mar 2012
Posts: 61
Location: Bordeaux, France
Posted: Sat Feb 14, 2015 11:50 pm Post subject: We need pictures of both sides of the horn, of the ’Couesnon’ engraving, of that ’49’ too..
_________________
Mikel Dupac / LawlerC7 / CarolBrass flugel+pocket
Several Couesnon flugels / Olds Super / Conn New
Wonder cornet / Music healing force of UniverseBack to topMike Prestage
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 09 Oct 2012
Posts: 551
Location: London, UK
Posted: Sun Feb 15, 2015 5:21 am Post subject: I’ve seen a Couesnon Star with no serial number. I’m 100% certain it wasn’t a fake - it looked identical in every way to a Star I owned at the time (which did have a serial) and played a lot like it as well.
As far as models go, it’s not at all unusual for Couesnons to have no model name marked on them. AFAIK no one’s ever worked out what the odd letters such as X mean.
MikeBack to topdupac
Regular Member
Joined: 17 Mar 2012
Posts: 61
Location: Bordeaux, France
Posted: Sun Feb 15, 2015 5:37 am Post subject: X was just an instruction to choose the right valve block during assembly: no meaning for the user. Furthermore the lack of serial number, plus the description of the engraving, make me think the horn could have been made in 1968-69, .. but I need pictures!
_________________
Mikel Dupac / LawlerC7 / CarolBrass flugel+pocket
Several Couesnon flugels / Olds Super / Conn New
Wonder cornet / Music healing force of UniverseBack to toprtsorensen
New Member
Joined: 14 Feb 2015
Posts: 8
Posted: Sun Feb 15, 2015 8:31 am Post subject: Here are some pics. Hope you guys can help me..
/Users/rolfthoftesorensen/Library/Containers/com.apple.mail/Data/Library/Mail Downloads/4CAA4240-73B8-43C8-AC93-E43CF6A8FFE4/IMG_2369.JPG
/Users/rolfthoftesorensen/Library/Containers/com.apple.mail/Data/Library/Mail Downloads/61DAC855-57F2-4ACC-B538-DF1EFD4C8C81/IMG_2366.JPG
/Users/rolfthoftesorensen/Library/Containers/com.apple.mail/Data/Library/Mail Downloads/F92EDA6E-360D-4582-A11F-514C136C77C8/IMG_2370.JPG[/img]Back to toprtsorensen
New Member
Joined: 14 Feb 2015
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Posted: Sun Feb 15, 2015 8:32 am Post subject: How the hell do you post pictures?Back to toprtsorensen
New Member
Joined: 14 Feb 2015
Posts: 8
Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2015 2:31 am Post subject: Ahhhh... You should be able to see pictures of the horn following this link. Thanks!
https://www.facebook.com/rolfsrensen/media_set?set=a.10152752983439001.1073741828.756989000&type=3Back to topdupac
Regular Member
Joined: 17 Mar 2012
Posts: 61
Location: Bordeaux, France
Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2015 4:28 am Post subject: Thank you for the pictures. All these details are absolutely identical to those of my own flugel .. This quick and cheap engraving (stamping?) was used after the great strikes of May and June 1968 in France, when the production resumed. Without being 100% sure, I think your horn was made in 1968-69, 1970 perhaps, but not later.
_________________
Mikel Dupac / LawlerC7 / CarolBrass flugel+pocket
Several Couesnon flugels / Olds Super / Conn New
Wonder cornet / Music healing force of UniverseBack to toprtsorensen
New Member
Joined: 14 Feb 2015
Posts: 8
Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2015 4:34 am Post subject: thanks a lot dupac!
It seems very plausible that this horn should around that old from the look of it. Your horn is also without serial and with the 49 on the receiver? What does this ’49’ signify?
So the horn is not of a special model? Its just a couesnon flugelhorn from around 1968-70....?Back to topdupac
Regular Member
Joined: 17 Mar 2012
Posts: 61
Location: Bordeaux, France
Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2015 4:45 am Post subject: As for the model: even if I can’t see that on the pictures, I think it is not a ’Monopole’ (the high end model) since it probably hasn’t any trigger. But it isn’t a low end either, since I can see it has three water keys. How does it play?
49 is a code number for the leadpipe. Mine has 22, but is a low end model. And no serial number too!
_________________
Mikel Dupac / LawlerC7 / CarolBrass flugel+pocket
Several Couesnon flugels / Olds Super / Conn New
Wonder cornet / Music healing force of UniverseBack to toprtsorensen
New Member
Joined: 14 Feb 2015
Posts: 8
Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2015 4:51 am Post subject: It has a trigger for the third valve yes..Back to topdupac
Regular Member
Joined: 17 Mar 2012
Posts: 61
Location: Bordeaux, France
Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2015 4:58 am Post subject: A trigger? Fine.. To my knowledge, the ’Monopole’ models had two triggers, on first and third valve slides. So you have a ’semi-Monopole’! Good horn I hope?
_________________
Mikel Dupac / LawlerC7 / CarolBrass flugel+pocket
Several Couesnon flugels / Olds Super / Conn New
Wonder cornet / Music healing force of UniverseBack to topdupac
Regular Member
Joined: 17 Mar 2012
Posts: 61
Location: Bordeaux, France
Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2015 12:52 pm Post subject: Correction: the Couesnon Monopole flugels had only one trigger, on the third valve of course.
_________________
Mikel Dupac / LawlerC7 / CarolBrass flugel+pocket
Several Couesnon flugels / Olds Super / Conn New
Wonder cornet / Music healing force of UniverseBack to toprtsorensen
New Member
Joined: 14 Feb 2015
Posts: 8
Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2015 12:05 am Post subject: so it might actually be a monopole... But i guess we can only make a qualified guessBack to toptrumpetherald.com Forum Index ->HornsAll times are GMT - 8 Hours
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